[Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框 [論壇 - Ubuntu 養蟲箱 - bug share]


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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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我看了 真的很好
麻煩您發到那兩個回報的版面
謝謝

2011/2/13 14:55
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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由於我最近有一些事要忙 所以我先猜測Xu會怎樣回應 以及我會怎樣回應

Xu可能會說:

『這並不是一項不好的設定
 它使中文用戶能有更美好的英文字體 這是一種進步
 我們不應該剝奪用戶「使用更美好的英文字體」的權利

 Bug是被可以修正的
 即使其他軟體也出現方框問題 我們仍然可以修正它
 該修正的是軟體 而不是字型設定
 修改69-language-selector-zh-*.conf是一種退化』


如果他這樣說的話 shiao大麻煩您幫我回應:

『我們說過許多遍了
 比起英文好不好看 中文用戶更在乎的是中文正不正常 並且好不好看是因人而異的主觀看法
 即使BUG可以在事後被修正 可是你要如何事先預防出現「中文變成方框的軟體」呢?
 中文用戶想要的是「預設狀態下沒有亂碼 將來也不會出現亂碼」的系統

 如果你認為不該修改69-language-selector-zh-*.conf
 至少也該給個「預防將來出現有方框的軟體」的提案
 而不是讓系統維持在「依然無法解決poppler的Bug 同時也無法預防將來出現有方框的軟體」的情況下』

2011/2/13 15:49
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)

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Attn: xenomorph0525
已貼文如下
Comment 31 for bug 659280
Comment 6 for bug 713950

2011/2/13 16:08
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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poloshiao 寫到:
Attn: xenomorph0525
已貼文如下
Comment 31 for bug 659280
Comment 6 for bug 713950


謝謝

2011/2/13 16:13
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)

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Attn: xenomorph0525
............................................................................................
Comment 7 for bug 713950 Aron Xu

Discussions may continue only about why your proposed appearance on how the fonts are displayed would be better than the current one and fit for the majority of people.

Any reasons about "it will avoid applications which don't support fallback" should just stop: go and fix the buggy applications. For example if you like to fix a related PDF rendering issue, please go to Bug #659280 and put your efforts on pushing/fixing poppler(-data).

............................................................................................
Comment 32 for bug 659280 Aron Xu

@poloshiao, Thanks for you hard work on translating the messages, :)

@xenomorph0525,
You've tried to predict what I'll reply to your comments, and it seems to be you'd like ask me a question: correctly displaying Chinese characters by a workaround or waiting for fixing the buggy software - which is more important?

From your point of view, correctly displaying the characters is more important - I know your opinion very clearly. Please don't doubt I've misunderstood you anymore.

But why such a problem being so critical in your mind? I guess the answer is the problem exists in the application that renders PDF files - which you must use to finish your work or study. So it's critical for you, and for some people who have similar situations - but fixing a problem should not influence other common people who don't care about your problem, their right (to have these three lines in fontconfig configuration) should be respected first.

If there are any problem on preference of fonts, that's another issue and you should convince people your choice is more suitable for a common taste. And you should really be clear that working around a bug in another application should never be your reason to push such a change, because font configuration matters for people who care that, then maybe you are break their things by this way (if you don't influence them, it'll be okay). Also, you can't say after such a change, people still have the freedom to add whatever they like back - then you have your freedom now to do whatever, too.

So I think you have wasted a lot of time here on arguing whether we would change fontconfig to adopt a dirty work around. Why not go and find a fix for poppler(-data)? That's the universal way which make everyone happy. (I think you agree it is able to be fixed.)

There is another issue which has very similar problem:
Many MP3 files have Big5/GBK tags, but no media player accept any work around such as detect Big5/GBK before assuming they are UTF-8 (even placing a locale hack is never accepted) - because such a detection has problems, and people who are using UTF-8 files might suffer problems they should never need.

Now, applying your proposal on working around PDF rendering problem will do harm to people who care their font settings, so it's not acceptable. Please, put all your efforts to make poppler(-data), that is a much more effective (and maybe correct) way to solve your problem, but not keep arguing or asking me "which is more important".

............................................................................................
Comment 33 for bug 659280 Aron Xu:

Please, put all your efforts to make poppler(-data) behave correctly, that is a much more effective (and maybe correct) way to solve your problem, but not keep arguing or asking me "which is more important".

............................................................................................
如果需要 翻譯那部分 請說明

2011/2/13 19:59
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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就像我們提出了「不只poppler有這問題」他對此沒有反應 (不是指沒有回應 而是指對此不多做討論)
這次提出了「混合中英字型檔是後來才有的設定」他還是對此沒有反應 都在說poppler的事
shiao大 對不起 我又讓你浪費時間了

他似乎永遠搞不懂 我不是要解決poppler的問題 而是要解決中文變方框的問題 poppler只是這問題的一部分 解決了poppler也救不了其他有方框問題的軟體 並且也預防不了將來出現新的有方框問題的軟體

並且他也搞不懂 這問題是由兩個因素組成的
一、混合中英字型檔的設定
二、不支援這樣設定的軟體

假如Ubuntu 10.10有個常用軟體叫aaa一直以來都沒有什麼問題 而Ubuntu 11.04新增了一個設定檔叫xxx.conf
結果aaa的中文變成方框了 那麼人們會怎麼想呢?
人們會認為這個新增的xxx.conf有bug 造成aaa不正常

但是從11.04開始使用Ubuntu的人呢
他們會認為aaa有bug 因為其他軟體都是正常的 只有aaa不正常

這是一個有趣的現象 明明是同一種情況 卻有兩種相反的看法
Aron Xu屬於後者 所以認定修改xxx.conf是偏門走道

事實上 是雙方都有bug
aaa無法正常地呈現xxx.conf的設定 xxx.conf無法正常地在aaa發揮
這是互相的

我認為這兩項因素都應該消除 尤其是設定檔的bug 因為這是我們能控制的
相對地軟體的bug只能在事後補救 畢竟你根本無法控制軟體作者怎樣寫程式

我什麼時候在問「correctly displaying Chinese characters by a workaround or waiting for fixing the buggy software - which is more important?」了??????
我自己都不知道(笑) 我不是一直都說「要改設定也要改程式」嗎???
這不是只能二選一的啊

並且我不是已經提出了「不僅依賴poppler的軟體 連其他軟體的方框都能解決 並且防止將來出現有方框的軟體」的解決方案了嗎???

以上shiao大您不用幫我翻譯 我相信Aron Xu會來看的

2011/2/13 20:37
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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我又發現了一款軟體的Serif、Sans、Monospace的中文會變成方框
就是...Conky




去除69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf中的DejaVu後



希望Ubnutu 11.04不會有中文變方框問題的人 請支持一下連署
http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654

2011/2/18 1:07
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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預定第一次發表統計數據的日子到了
shiao麻煩您將以下這些翻譯 發到 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/659280https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/713950
由於是簡單的句子直接發上去便可以了 不用給我確認 麻煩您了 謝謝

------

針對是否修改 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf、69-language-selector-zh-hk.conf、69-language-selector-zh-mo.conf
我們在Ubuntu正體中文站( http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/ )發起了連署

直到今日(2/24)Ubuntu正體中文站的用戶中有:12人支持、1人反對

詳情請見 http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654
下一次將在 3/24 發表統計數據

2011/2/24 1:23
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)

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There are 12 users who support favorablely to the affixing theme at
http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654
, but 1 user who exptresses against the proposal to edit 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf.

There are totally 13 users who signed their opinions about the the affixing theme to edit 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf、69-language-selector-zh-hk.conf、69-language-selector-zh-mo.conf on http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654.

You are welcomed to visit the the affixing pages at http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654&forum=2.

The next statistics will be reported here on 03/24/2011.

.........................................................................................................

已貼文
Comment 34 for bug 659280
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/659280/comments/34
Comment 8 for bug 713950
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/713950/comments/8

2011/2/24 10:17
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回覆: [Bug] 部份軟體的中文為方框(例如Evince)
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poloshiao 寫到:
There are 12 users who support favorablely to the affixing theme at
http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654
, but 1 user who exptresses against the proposal to edit 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf.

There are totally 13 users who signed their opinions about the the affixing theme to edit 69-language-selector-zh-tw.conf、69-language-selector-zh-hk.conf、69-language-selector-zh-mo.conf on http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654.

You are welcomed to visit the the affixing pages at http://www.ubuntu-tw.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35654&forum=2.

The next statistics will be reported here on 03/24/2011.

.........................................................................................................

已貼文
Comment 34 for bug 659280
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/659280/comments/34
Comment 8 for bug 713950
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/713950/comments/8


謝謝
希望一個月後人能多一點 不破百位的話實在不怎麼有說服力... 這樣一來又一切照舊了

2011/2/24 10:22
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